Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...
Okay, the interview itself wasn’t three months long. But it was massive, and we’re going to publish one part of it each month as we count down to the release of DEVIL’S REJECTS this summer. Obi-Swan got the first part ready for us today, so here we go...
About a month ago I lucked into an advance screening of Rob Zombie’s anticipated HOUSE OF 1000 CORPSES follow-up, THE DEVIL’S REJECTS. From day one I’ve been a raving, unapologetic CORPSES fanatic. Not long after Zombie’s audacious debut, he started talking sequel. When the teaser trailer for REJECTS finally hit the Internet, I was so excited it made me mental. Those brief images suggested an amazing leap forward by the young auteur. It was one hell of a promise.
It is fair to say there’s a debate brewing online about this movie. Just read some of the TalkBacks from my first REJECTS piece and you’ll see caution and skepticism out there. Even I can admit to being a little nervous before the film. I was genuinely rooting for Rob, though. I wanted to see him make good on the promise of the trailers.
The movie delivers and then some, easily exceeding any expectations I had. Like in the first film, the sadism and violence are abundant and disturbing, but the impact this time is much more profound. I feel this way because the characters are very real. All the actors give haunting performances. It’s an honest human drama, crafted with confidence. I wasn’t prepared for the beauty of this film and it sucker-punched me.
After the screening I staggered out of the theater and mingled with some of the cast. They’re all great people. I even got a chance to speak with the maestro himself for about twenty minutes. At the end of our brief talk, I asked Rob if we could continue the conversation sometime down the road and he seemed open to the idea.
A week or so passed before I heard Rob would be free during a post-production lunch break. I was told we might only have thirty minutes, so I was pleasantly stunned when our conversation lasted over an hour. Rob was deep into sound mixing and I almost felt guilty for monopolizing his only free moments of the day. So much ground was covered that I had to break the interview into three parts. During this first segment, we discussed movie music, vigilante justice, and real life “monsters.”
“OBI” SWAN: I guess first thing, how’s post going? How much has the movie changed since I saw it?
ROB ZOMBIE: How much has it changed? Good question. There have been so many versions floating around I forget what you saw. There was some temp music in when you saw it, so all the original score is now in. All the digital effects are now done. A lot of them were missing when you saw it. The picture looks beautiful now. We’ve color timed it. I think the cut is still exactly the same, though.
OS: Even though some of the effects seemed a little temporary, the cut itself looked very refined.
RZ: Yeah, it was pretty close to being done. There were just some small things... some nit-picky things left to do.
OS: Speaking of the music, on the HOUSE OF 1000 CORPSES soundtrack, I think there were five tracks by you?
RZ: Yeah.
OS: In the version of THE DEVIL’S REJECTS I saw, I don’t recall hearing any Rob Zombie music.
RZ: Yeah, there’s nothing.
OS: Even in the final version?
RZ: I didn’t do any music at all. Period.
OS: That’s interesting. Did you intentionally want to just focus on your job as director this time out?
RZ: Well, there was a couple reasons. On the first film I did music out of need, in the sense that, by me doing songs, I got more money for the soundtrack which I could then put back into the movie so I could finish it. But on this one, me trying to do music and edit and try to do all the other things... I felt like I’d be splitting myself too many ways. And the other thing was I just didn’t want to do the music because... I don’t know... just take that out of the mix and let someone else handle the music. I’m involved as far as my input goes, but I just wanted someone else to compose it and let them have that as their one worry twenty-four hours a day.
OS: I really liked the use of “Midnight Rider” by The Allman Brother Band over the opening titles. Did that make it into the final cut?
RZ: Yeah. I think every song you heard when you saw the movie is exactly the same.
OS: That’s cool. I love how you edited that opening title sequence to the music.
RZ: I love title sequences that do something, rather than just, you know... roll credits. Such a bore.
OS: It’s totally different from CORPSES, where it was sort of a montage of creepy images. This time it’s over silent bits of story that could have been from a more narrative part of the film.
RZ: Everything I used for the credit sequence were actual scenes that I filmed. I just felt they worked better there. On the first film I felt there wasn’t enough. On this film there was so much. I had to cut things I thought were really good because I didn’t want the film to be too long. So those were actual scenes, but when you see them edited together as a credit sequence, they just seem more powerful. They still carry the story. It’s kind of the best of both worlds.
OS: There’s a scene late in REJECTS, in which the Rejects are having their cocaine/dope party...
RZ: (Chuckles).
OS: ... and it’s a great little series of tableaus set to music. It’s real. It’s human. And the work you’re doing is very confident. I don’t really have a specific question about the scene, but I was hoping to get your thoughts about constructing a scene like that... where you know there’s going to be music that will compliment what’s happening onscreen. Because that sequence really stands out for me. It’s great work.
RZ: Do you mean the sequence where they’re all dancing around together, or when their all fragmented in different places?
OS: It’s the sequence right before Sheriff Wydell descends on them.
RZ: Oh, okay. Right. That was a difficult sequence. That was probably the hardest sequence in the movie to edit because each of the Rejects are isolated from each other. There’s Spaulding with Charlie [Altamont]. Otis is by himself. Baby is by herself. And I filmed each of those as stand-alone scenes. But it just never had the impact until I did more of a montage with the song. And that was an idea that started early on in editing, but it never really came together until near the end and I found the right song. Music really isn’t used that well anymore. Not always, but a lot of times, music in film is an afterthought. The movie is done, then they hire a music supervisor and they throw in a bunch of songs. And most of the time they don’t resonate. Almost all the songs in REJECTS are songs I cleared in advance of shooting the movie. So I knew that if everybody was inspired by the Allman Brothers while we’re shooting, it’s going to be the Allman Brothers playing when you hear the movie, not a year later it’s suddenly something else.
OS: Like with the final sequence in the film. That’s music you specifically planned to use.
RZ: Right. That was something I always had in mind. The worst thing you can do is shoot a movie then, like, temp in a Beatles song, something you will never get the rights to. (Laughs). They fall in love with it, then it comes time to finish the film and...
OS: It’s kind of a heartbreak.
RZ: Yeah, and you don’t want to get in that situation. Except for a couple cases where it just didn’t work out, almost every song in the movie is the song I was listening to while I was writing the script. And it helps with the actors, too. Not that they would perform to the song, but it helps them to know what’s what. It gives them a sense of it.
OS: In the final sequences of the film, Sheriff Wydell gives the Rejects a taste of their own medicine. He evokes the name of God. He’s hell-bent of exacting revenge in the name of the law. While I was watching that scene and while I was driving home, I started thinking that maybe you’ve made a film about the death penalty argument. Is there some truth to this?
RZ: Um... I really... I mean... It really wasn’t something I had in mind, no. What I had more in mind was the theme of vigilante justice, which kind of plays into that a little bit. Ever since I was a kid, I was always real big into reading books on the old west... reading about sheriffs and vigilante justice and hangings and local law. That’s more about what I’m dealing with. But that’s the funny thing with movies. You can read different things into movies. For all I know that’s exactly what William Forsythe was thinking the entire time. You have something you’re trying to express, of course, but I hate it when things are so cut and dry. Here it is and this is all you’ll ever think whenever you see it. I like it when things are... not confusing, but a little bit ambiguous. When we do test screenings and hand out those cards for the audience to fill out, people are conflicted. “I wasn’t sure who I was supposed to root for. I felt bad if I thought this, but I felt bad if I thought this. And I’m kind of unsure how I felt about this.” And for me, this is the best. Because I hate movies where it’s like, clearly this is the good guy and clearly this is the bad guy and here’s what you’re supposed to think. Okay... boring. I love movies like TAXI DRIVER. Twenty-five years later, I’m still not sure what I think about Travis Bickle at the end of the movie. Is he a hero? I don’t know. Maybe. Or is he just a nut?
OS: I felt that way about the sequence I just mentioned. The Rejects kind of have a breakdown and there’s a moment where you start to wonder, do these people have a soul after all? Like when Spaulding tries to lure Sheriff Wydell away from Baby...
RZ: Right.
OS: I mean, that’s a very sympathetic, human moment. It’s nothing like the behavior of the psychotic monsters we’re used to seeing.
RZ: Because I wanted to make them real people. I would draw upon a lot of real people I knew, and everybody knows somebody like this. You might know two brothers who fight and beat the shit out of each other constantly. They hate each other... until someone else steps in and they immediately band together. They hate each other, but no one can get between them. They’ll join forces against any outside opponent. And that’s kind of the mentality with these people. I mean, Otis and Baby seem to be fighting and hating each other through the whole movie practically, until someone else gets in the middle, then they will support each other until the end.
OS: That sequence made me wonder if that experience at the hands of Wydell had changed them. If things had been different, if we could see them after the events of the film, would they be different people? Would they have changed or gained some kind of respect for life?
RZ: Right. Exactly. You never know. With characters like that, in real life, you never really can get inside their heads. Y’know what I mean? Like, what was happening to Jeffery Dahmer when he was being killed? You see the “monster,” you see the guy in court, emotionless, but there are moments – and I’m not saying we should be sympathetic towards these people – but there are these moments where there’s something else behind it. They are human... on some bizarre level.
OS: Do you think you make these movies to deal with any personal fears? Fears of the dark side of humanity? Or are you just making these movies to have fun as a filmmaker?
RZ: I don’t really think I... basically I do everything based upon what I want to see. I like these types of characters, so I put these kind of characters in a movie.
OS: I only ask because someone could easily get the impression, based on your work, that you think the world is a little screwed up and that you might be pessimistic about human nature.
RZ: Well, I think that I am, for sure. I grew up thinking and feeling that way. It’s a funny thing... I never really noticed it in myself until one day my mom sent me all these old Super-8 movies of myself as a kid. I watched them and I could see this arc... I was this happy little kid who thought the world was spectacular and everything’s wonderful... and then I don’t know what changed, but I could see the moment in my life when I stopped thinking that. And from there on out, I wasn’t the smiley, happy kid. I was never smiling again in any pictures or any films. It was really weird. I don’t know what it was, but it was right around the third grade. It was the moment where I became... pessimistic? I don’t know...
OS: There’s no specific social agenda or comment you’re chasing with these films?
RZ: It’s just the way I see things.
OS: In our last interview, you told me that you want to continue to challenge yourself and evolve as a filmmaker. I’m wondering if you ever foresee yourself going in the complete opposite direction, like Wes Craven did with MUSIC OF THE HEART. Will we ever see Rob Zombie’s TERMS OF ENDEARMENT?
RZ: I don’t know what I’ll do, but I do know that I didn’t start doing this to put myself in a box and say this is all I’m ever gonna do. If something appealed to me, and I felt like I could do it and make it good, I would do it, for sure. There’s nothing worse than, this is all I can do and this is all I’m ever going to do. Well, then what’s the point, really? That’s everyone’s joke. “Will you ever make a romantic comedy?” I don’t know. Maybe. I just like movies. I like all types of movies. I don’t like just one type of movie, so I don’t want to make just one type of movie.
OS: Like Robert Rodriguez. There’s a guy who seems completely comfortable slipping from one genre to the next. He can make a G-Rated kids movie, then turn around and make something as violent and crazy and adult-themed as SIN CITY. That kind of freedom must be fantastic. I can definitely see why you wouldn’t want people to just see you as one kind of director.
RZ: Being pigeon-holed is terrible. Even if all you did was one kind of movie, you wouldn’t want to be pigeon-holed for it.
My thanks to Rob Zombie for spending an hour of his time with me. THE DEVIL’S REJECTS is set for release on July 22. Look for part two of my interview coming soon.
Photography: jimevans/dl3
Thanks, Obi-Swan. I’m hoping this one screens again soon. Everyone I’ve talked to who has seen it seems genuinely impressed by the film.
"Moriarty" out.
